David Heimer: It was a big writing year for you as well, right?

Dave Rothacker: Yeah. 2019 and 2020 working on the Go-Time book, the most complicated project I’ve ever been involved with in my life, but so well worth it.

David Heimer: It’s gotten tremendous reviews, so good for you guys. It’s a great book. Let’s get on with the top three books. Tell us what you liked.

Dave Rothacker: Okay, great. So the first book, A Vision Driven Leader by Michael Hyatt. This is all about vision, vision casting, vision creating for leaders. And the first thing that attracted me to this book is the simplicity and the flow of the way it’s written. It’s just very understandable, very readable, and a perfect book for the busy contractor. The author covers vision from top to bottom and really emphasizes how important vision is for leaders. He gets involved with differentiating vision from mission, and he talks about differentiating leadership from management. And throughout the book, he does provide a clear systematic process for creating a vision and it’s based around a set of 10 questions that he asked throughout the book. And just as an example, he prompts with questions to drive thought in action. So, one question would be in regards to vision, what do you want? Is it clear? Does it inspire? And then that goes on and on. And like I said, throughout the book, he asks really, really good questions to prompt more thought and understanding. That’s a real key to look at when you’re reading a book, is the author asking questions? Are they prompting you to think? And he does a really, really good job of that.

David Heimer: The thing that I’ve always enjoyed about Michael Hyatt is that his works are very readable. They’re not difficult to read, and they also always seem very practical to me. Like you can read the books and you come away with to-do lists, things that you can apply immediately in your business or in your personal life to make things better, practical suggestions for you, and I’ve always enjoyed that about him.

Dave Rothacker: And that follows through with this book, but it’s more along the lines of creating one vision. It’s not like a list of actionable takeaways. It’s all based around the creation of the vision.

David Heimer: What’s next?

Dave Rothacker: The next book, Humanacuracy, that’s one-word Humanacuracy. The authors came up with that word to describe the opposite of bureaucracy. And this book is not as highly readable as the Vision Driven Leader, and this is not going to be a book that I think a great many are going to really embrace because it’s written more from an academic background combined with a business background from the authors, but it’s such a need. They speak to such a need that I believe there’s a huge demand for the methodology that they talk about. And in a nutshell, humanacuracy supersedes or takes over a bureaucracy. The word bureaucracy is outdated comes from an authoritarian power structure with suffocating rules and toxic politicking and that sort of thing, that’s what’s happening in bureaucracy. And the thing that stuck out to me about this book is, it seemed to me like the 21st-century version of the Cluetrain Manifesto, which was written in the late 1990s.

The Cluetrain Manifesto spoke to that human element needed in business as opposed to corporate speak and that sort of thing. And so, this offers us a fresh 21st-century version of how to combat bureaucracy. And a lot of people are going to think, well, that just happens in big companies. And the authors do state that it does become extremely problematic when the company starts exceeding 300 employees. But the elements that they talk about in Humanacuracy are applicable to all companies and this is really why I recommend reading this book. They speak from a platform, actually a silent platform because they don’t really identify it. But I know that I can identify with this because of my background in reading and studying leadership. But this platform that there’s an undertone throughout the book is serving leadership.

And some of the principles that they talk about are ownership, openness in a company, experimentation, community, meritocracy, ownership, autonomy, that sort of thing. And so, it speaks to people like me who might have been involved with organizations in the past that stifled people’s creativity. You weren’t able to kind of unleash your energy. You’re always confined by something, some rule or power structure, an outdated way of going about business and everything. And so, that’s really what this book speaks to me about.

We’re talking about actionable takeaway, and I did make a note on this because I thought this is applicable to all companies out there. And it’s fascinating actually, and it involves two questions. And so, this would be the manager speaking to their co-workers, and the manager would ask their coworker, what am I doing that feels like interference or adds no value to you? So again, and that’s a pretty bold thing. I mean {cross talking 07:17}.

David Heimer: Bold question to ask, isn’t it?

Dave Rothacker: Exactly. You know, what am I doing that feels like interference or adds no value to you?

David Heimer: Yeah, you have to be operating in an environment of high trust because I think there’s many subordinates that would not want to answer that question.

Dave Rothacker: No doubt. So with that in mind, here’s the other one, so buckle up, man, for this one. What am I doing that you can do better?

David Heimer: Oh man, that’s a great question.

Dave Rothacker: Yeah, talk about having trust and talk about being vulnerable, it’s a big 21st-century thing, you know, are you vulnerable in business kind of thing.

David Heimer: Who are the authors of this book?

Dave Rothacker: Well, the recognizable author is Gary Hamel and Gary Hamel is a really famous business author. I can’t exactly remember the name of the title, but the one that I have that I’ve read a couple of times from him is Leading Revolution or Leading the Revolution and that was about 20 years ago, but a very progressive guy. I think he was at one time at Harvard. I’m pretty sure he’s at the London school of business now. So he’s very steeped in change, transformational leadership type of guy. And the other individual, I believe, works at the London School of Business. I’m not familiar with Michele Zanini.

David Heimer: Sounds like a really interesting book with all those two questions.

Dave Rothacker: Yeah, I would recommend this for the owner that really loves leadership, wants to be more progressive. This isn’t going to be a book, you jump on the plane and read it, by the time you get to your destination. This is going to require some thought and thinking, and for me it was extremely worthwhile and, you know, a recommendable read. So next, Be 2.0, my favorite book, probably in the last couple of years that I have read so far. This book is so interesting. Jim Collins is the author of Good to Great, Built to Last and a few other books. Jim was wildly successful after the publication of Good to Great. My first reading of Jim was Good to Great. And then I went back and read his Built to Last, I read that after it. And then consequently, I read all of his books after Good to Great.

And actually, I’ve been writing about Good to Great since 2000 or whenever that book came out, 2001, probably one of my top two or three before leadership books ever. In the knack I would always get, or the backlash I would always get from people is, well, you know, Jim Collins writes about these big companies and it doesn’t pertain to me. Well, if you really break down everything he writes about, it does pertain to any size company, but I’ve always had that sort of after years of kind of arguing with people. I say, okay, it doesn’t pertain to you, you know, okay. But it was always there that it sort of bothered me. And so reading Be 2.0, which he just published, is an updated version of his original book Beyond Entrepreneurship, which was written in 1990. And he wrote it along with his favorite mentor of all time, Bill Lazier. And what was so fascinating about the original book, and by the way, in this book, he keeps the original content in place. He does not change it. What he does is inserts updates throughout the book.

And what was so fascinating about this, and it’s like I read this book and I thought, man, how could I miss this book back in 1990? But Jim comes right out and says that the first book he wrote in 1990, Beyond Entrepreneurship was written for small to mid-sized companies. And so, everything in that original book is totally targeted at small to mid-sized companies. So what he does in Be 2.0, well, Bill Lazier had passed away years ago, but he remained on as the author of Be 2.0 because the original version is intact within this book so he’s still listed as an author. But what Jim Collins does is he ties his entire methodology from 1990 through 2020 into this whole work. So you can read this book, you see the original thinking. He was talking about great companies back in the late 1980s.

And so, you can see the roots of his big, big works, and you could see the Genesis of the way he approached small to mid-sized companies and he ties it all together. And he brings the readers through his entire methodology, through all those years explaining everything along the way. It’s just so fascinating and it’s rewarding to see how his roots of where his thinking was, how that thinking developed, how it progressed. And then he also talks about companies that aren’t always good to great, you know, there’s been some kickback about, well, those companies aren’t great. So more while he did write another book that totally addresses that syndrome and he talks about it in this one as well. So, it could be an introduction to Jim’s work and it’s also kind of a recap – so just a fascinating book.

David Heimer: So, give me a couple of takeaways out of it. What would you say a lesson is that you took away from it?

Dave Rothacker: One that really jumped out at me, you know, here’s something that he was writing back in the 1980s talking about, and that’s leading with values first and it’s like, you know, you read leadership books today and you’re thinking, oh, he came up with this in the last five or six years, you know, lead with values first. I mean, it really is the right way to lead, you know, with values first. Like Jim Collins writing about it in the late 1980s, which was published in 1990, you know, he also talks about building relationships, building lifetime meaningful relationships. And I’m sure you’ve seen it, David, you know, through your career, you’ve come up in the industry with a budding young professional who’s about your age or so, if you know each other when maybe you just graduated from college or you’re in your early twenties. And then boom, flash forward 35 years, and you’re in your mid-fifties and both of you guys are still around and now both of your guys are attending levels above where you were kind of thing.

And so, you know, the meaning of building those relationships early on and being able to be in them throughout your work career is very meaningful and beneficial. If you ever see somebody early on, you know, in your career when you were younger and then you kind of parallel them throughout your career and there they are 30 years later?

David Heimer: Sure, Matt, Michelle and I, you know, we were friends way back in the eighties, met a number of people and Steve Hoffman who unfortunately died recently. But yeah, a number of great people that I’ve worked with over the course of my career, I’d say sort of grew up with them.

Dave Rothacker: I had one final take away from Collins’ work. And here again, he’s writing something from way back in the day, but it’s simply and basically purpose before profits. And it’s pretty self-explanatory, but the thing that resonated with me is here’s something that was being discussed back in the late – well, 1990 anyhow. And you’re reading it today and you’re thinking, well, that just came across like in the last 10 years or so about purpose-driven companies and stuff. And it’s not really the case. I mean, it really opens your eyes to Collin’s complete body of work.

David Heimer: I think you said this, in fact, it’s almost like an introduction to everything that he’s ever written or a summary of everything he’s ever written?

Dave Rothacker: Absolutely. And you know, what, if you’re a young entrepreneur today or young business leader and you never read Jim Collins, read this book and you’re going to run to read his other books.

David Heimer: Of the three books, this is your favorite, but not only that, this is your favorite book of this year and maybe the last couple of years?

Dave Rothacker: Yeah, last few years.

David Heimer: That’s a pretty strong recommendation. How many books do you think you read in a year?

Dave Rothacker: Well, up until last year, I was reading probably somewhere between 70 and 80. But like I said, last year, I sort of pared down a little bit, re-read a lot of my old books. I mean, I was still reading that many books, but I wasn’t reading different titles because I read everything.

David Heimer: You have a log of all the books you read?

Dave Rothacker: Not written down on paper. No and I haven’t rated them, but in my office, I’m surrounded by about 1100 books. And I think that there’s only about eight of them that I have not read. So I have a visual of every book I’ve read, you know, pretty much, you know?

David Heimer: Impressive.

Dave Rothacker: Yeah, I got one more recommendation. This is just a quickie. I’m not going to get into a big review, but this is for people who are into marketing and business leaders. The other classic is called What Great Storytellers Know, by Bernadette Jiwa. And it teaches the skills to become more influential and become more of an inspirational purpose. So highly, highly recommend that book if you’re a leader or if you’re into marketing.

David Heimer: Sounds very interesting. And is that a book that you are reading right now?

Dave Rothacker: I think I read it in December of 2020. Probably would have been number four on that list, but I didn’t elaborate on it, just a quick. But wait, there’s one more.

David Heimer: Yeah, I know the temptation. First of all, you really love books, but you know, a list of three, it’s sort of arbitrary, you know, and this one, four could have made it, right?

Dave Rothacker: Yeah, it’s like who’s your favorite child? You know, you can’t answer that.

David Heimer: Well, Dave, thank you so much for doing this. I sincerely appreciate it. And you and I talked about this earlier and it’s very generous of you. I wanted to mention that we talked about the fact that Dave is co-author of the book, It’s Go-Time, and it’s a really fabulous book. If you haven’t read it, I highly recommend it. And it’s available at the Service Roundtable store, that’s shop.serviceroundtable.com, and Dave very generously said he would give us $10 off to listeners of this show. So when you check out, if you put in the promo code PIP, like Profiles In Prosperity PIP, you’ll get $10 off. Pretty cool. So thanks for doing that, Dave, I really appreciate it.

Dave Rothacker: Oh, you’re welcome. Just for listeners of your show.

David Heimer: That’s right. They won’t know about it any other way. Great talking to you, thanks again. I look forward to reviewing with you again at the end of 2021 and hearing what else you’ve been up to. So thanks for your time, I appreciate it.

Dave Rothacker: Thanks for having me on.

David Heimer: Take care.

Outro: We’re always looking for good ideas and interviews for our podcast. If you have an idea, or maybe you think you should be interviewed, just shoot an email to profilesinprosperity@serviceroundtable.com, that’s profilesinprosperity@serviceroundtable.com. If you think what we’re doing has any value, it would be very helpful if you would give us a great rating on iTunes. Thanks for your support. Hope to see you again soon. Bye.